Turquoise Goat Board Game Cafe at 122 W Hastings St, Vancouver, BC (Image: Turquoise Goat)
JLL’s Food & Beverage 2023 report indicates demand is returning in Canada while restaurants continue to battle rising costs and staffing shortages as customers increasingly to seek out experiences when they go out for food and drink.
January reservations in Canada were 38.1 per cent above 2019 levels.
Tim Sanderson
Tim Sanderson, Executive Vice President & National Lead, Retail, JLL Canada, said what’s happening in Canada is mirroring what’s taking place in the U.S. which has always had a propensity to eat out more than people do in Canada.
“I think that people are after how many years of being shut in they just want to get out and experiential food and beverage is something that’s attracting people. I don’t think we have enough of it in this country quite frankly where you can go and have a meal and play some games, whatever. But I think it’s coming,” said Sanderson.
Experience remains one of the top trends in food and beverage. Consumers’ demand for fun and novel experiences continues apace. Consequently, new “eatertainment” concepts are opening as well as “clubstaurants”, which offer members exclusive experiences at a premium price, said JLL.
Image: The Ballroom
“It’s a similar trend to introducing food to a shopping centre. When people go to a shopping centre and there’s a place to eat and it’s decent and it’s not just an old tired food court, statistics prove that they spend more time on the property and when they spend more time on the property the conversion rate of buying something other than just food is higher,” said Sanderson.
“Clearly that’s the same thing for a bowling experience. Or something like the Rec Room. Let’s go. Let’s have something to eat. Let’s have a beer or two. And let’s go play some basketball hoops or let’s go play some games. It’s a third dimension to food, alcohol and gaming.”
The Rec Room at Square One (Image: Dustin Fuhs)
But restaurants are still facing some challenges these days with many of their costs elevated and finding people to work is not easy. JLL said more than nine out of 10 restaurant operators report that rising costs are a significant challenge to their business. They are battling these costs primarily by raising menu prices, which pass these costs on to the consumer. And staffing shortages are limiting the quality of service restaurants can offer their diners. Operators are offering higher wages, cutting back on opening hours, or utilizing technology to remain efficient.
“We see it when American restaurateurs come to Canada and start looking at wage rates. Our wage rates for labour in Canada for the restaurant business are much, much higher than they are in the United States,” said Sanderson.
“Food as a category is a very thin-margined business. I don’t know where all the people that worked in food service went when the pandemic hit but they all left the industry it seems . . . My personal experience is service levels are troublesome. They’re either under-staffed or the staff aren’t well trained within.
“I think as an industry they do have to work a little harder at training their staff. It’s a problem.”
NBA Courtside Restaurant in Toronto (Image: Dustin Fuhs)
Canadian operators are focusing on food and fun. Here are a few examples of that in the JLL report:
In the Greater Toronto Area, Cineplex is opening its new Junxion concept, which is being hailed as the movie theatre of the future. In addition to showcasing movies, games, and live events, Cineplex Junxion Erin Mills will feature a food hall with a variety of food and beverage options, as well as an indoor food truck and bar with a selection of wines and beers.
Sports and entertainment food operators have positioned themselves in high-traffic areas to capitalize on the growing demand for in-person experiences.
In Toronto, the city’s first NBA-themed restaurant, NBA Courtside Restaurant, is opening just steps from Scotiabank Arena. Similarly, Vancouver is opening near the Broadway Corridor a basketball-themed bar ─ Courtside Bar ─ that will serve beer and stadium food.
Vancouver’s Turquoise Goat is the city’s newest board game café, joining a market with numerous board game bars and pizzerias. The café offers an inexpensive and tech-free way to socialize while enjoying simple food and drinks. It has already become a popular destination for patrons.
A fascination and passion for Japanese kitchen knives led Kevin Kent into opening a retail location a few years ago, focused on selling the items in the Canadian market.
Kevin Kent
Today Knifewear has five locations with two in Calgary, and one each in Vancouver, Ottawa and Edmonton. A new Toronto store has been announced to open at 517 Bloor Street West in the city’s Annex area, set to open in June.
Kent, Founder and CEO, said Toronto and Vancouver are huge.
“I’m not going to put the idea that we only need one store in those cities. I see two or three stores in Toronto and Vancouver. They’re huge cities. I can see them supporting two or three stores,” he said. “Montreal would be great but Quebec has its challenges. Then after that I’d really like a shop and a warehouse in Japan. Kyoto would be fantastic.”
Knifewear Toronto (Rendering: Knifewear)Image: Knifewear
He said people assume Knifewear sells only to chefs but the brand sells to all consumers.
“I’m an old chef and I bought a Japanese knife when I was living in England in 1999 and I had that moment . . . I said hold on what’s going on here. Why is this way, way, way better than anything I ever had before?,” said Kent.
At the time, he was working as sous-chef for the legendary chef Fergus Henderson at St. John restaurant in London, England. Back in Canada in 2007 he began selling them out of a backpack from the back of his bicycle, while working as a chef in Calgary.
Image: KnifewearImage: Knifewear
In January 2008, he opened his first store in the inner city Inglewood neighbourhood of Calgary.
“We haven’t opened a new shop in about six years. We were going to open in Toronto in 2020 in May or June and we were in the middle of dealing with a lease at that time in the middle of March when COVID hit. So we hit the brakes as you can imagine. I’ve been trying to get to Toronto for a long time,” said Kent.
“But finally, finally, finally. I’m pretty excited about it.”
He considers his chef years as the best education for being an entrepreneur.
Being a chef takes long hours, involves hard work, both mentally and physically, and chefs must be able to put out fires, both literal and figurative, with extreme competence. Today, Kent is still just as obsessed with Japanese knives as the day he first held one. A couple times a year, he travels to Japan to meet with his blacksmith friends and drinks far too much sake, according to his biography on the company website.
“Each visit he learns more about the ancient art of knife-making. Through this obsession Knifewear has expanded to include five Knifewear stores in Calgary, Vancouver, Ottawa, and Edmonton. Plans are also underway to open a store in Kyoto, Japan. He refuses to confess how many Japanese knives he owns … but he admits the number is rather high.”
191 Lombard Avenue in Winnipeg. Image: Google Street View
Birks Group has closed its downtown Winnipeg Maison Birks store after decades of being in business in the Manitoba city.
The location on Lombard Avenue shut down at the end of March as the Canadian jewellery retailer continues to focus on building the brand in the major markets of Canada.
In an interview with Retail Insider, Jean-Christophe Bédos, President and CEO, Birks Group, said: “The store came to the end of its lease. We want to focus our efforts and development in the larger urban centres in Quebec, Ontario, British Columbia and Alberta.
“Thanks to a great partner we have in Winnipeg, they’re called Independent Jewellers, they distribute the Birks brand in their stores and then of course we keep serving our clients by the internet, by e-commerce. So we felt we didn’t need to renew the lease, renovate the store for another seven to 10 years. So it coincided with our strategy to concentrate on the large urban centres.”
Photo: Manitoba Historical Society
Bédos said Birks has had a partnership with Independent Jewellers for about four years.
Birks opened the store on Main Street in Winnipeg in 1903. It was the second store that Birks ever opened outside of Montreal, (following the opening of the Ottawa store in 1901). In 1911, Birks moved the Winnipeg store to the corner of Portage and Smith, formerly the YMCA building, and later moved again to 191 Lombard Ave.
“We will open or close stores depending on how things go. We are not just closing stores. We’re considering opening stores and also when it makes sense and again working on executing the strategy of ours,” said Bédos. “So if we close stores it will be only because the market is changing and stores are becoming less relevant. Of course, if a store becomes less profitable then of course we would close less profitable stores but that’s not the case with our stores. At least currently.”
Recently, Birks relocated its Maison Birks store to a bigger location in CF Chinook Centre in Calgary and the retailer has undertaken significant renovations at its CF Carrefour Laval store near Montreal which will be unveiled later this spring.
Birks is a leading Canadian retailer and designer of fine jewellery, timepieces and gifts since 1879. The company operates 22 Maison Birks stores across Canada, including flagship locations in Calgary, Montreal, Toronto and Vancouver.
The 4,174-square-foot Maison Birks store at CF Chinook Centre , features a 1,117-square-foot Rolex Showroom with a VIP area.
In a previous interview with Retail Insider, Bédos said Birks has additional stores it wants to renovate as well as some markets it wants to enter.
“There is a significant shift in the consumer behaviour for luxury goods. We are closing markets and we are opening new markets. We definitely see that the market is growing and it’s an evolution that we have our thumb on that post to really be present where the consumer spending is growing,” explained Bédos.
“For Canada what’s happening our observation is that the Canadian market’s becoming more and more urban in the spending. Four or five major hubs, clusters of luxury. The cities like Vancouver, Toronto and Montreal are clearly growing for the market. We see significant investments in retail from international brands.
“We see also Alberta with Calgary and Edmonton becoming strong and those areas see a significant arrival of new Canadians and new residents who come from countries where the luxury brands are present and they expect those brands to be present in the markets where they decide to become residents in Canada.”
Bédos said in the past what had been missing in Canada was the international calibre of the retail experience especially in downtown areas and top quality shopping centres.
With the macroeconomic tension at the moment with inflation and higher interest rates, business is not easy.
“But when you provide an experience which is worth it, worth going out of home, worth transacting somewhere else than just on the mobile phone or your desktop, this is what (retail expert) Doug Stephens called what the store has to offer more than just the website,” said Bédos.
“The people go out and enjoy it. You see the transformation of downtown Toronto with Yorkville and Bloor. Yorkdale is a great example. We see also the great example in Vancouver and Vancouver is going to soon have a new Oakridge store which is going to be a significant value proposition for consumers. People will go there. When there is something interesting, they go and shop.”
Image: McRobie Architects + Interior Designers Inc.
Altea Active is continuing to change the face of the Canadian health and fitness industry, growing its unique wellness and social club concept to new locations.
Its latest location will open this fall in Vancouver and on Thursday it announced it will also open in Ottawa in late 2024.
Altea Active currently operates a state-of-the-art, 80,000-square-foot facility in Winnipeg, which opened November 2019, and an 89,000-square-foot wellness and social club in Toronto’s Liberty Village neighbourhood which opened March 2022.
The Vancouver location will be 43,000 square feet while Ottawa will be 129,000 square feet in an old Canadian Tire building at 1660 Carling Avenue. Ottawa will be its largest location and will include an indoor pickleball club.
And David Wu, Co-Founder President and CEO of the company, told Retail Insider Altea is looking to expand by about two projects each year.
Click image for interactive Google Map
Wu said the company has also acquired 4.8 acres of land from First Capital in Milton, Ontario. It is currently working on the development of that project which would be a new build of about 76,000 square feet. It is also looking at a site in Calgary.
“We design these projects carefully with the real estate selection going through a very robust and rigorous data review and we designed these projects really focused on the audience in the community,” he said. “Winnipeg is our suburban business model and we tailor a lot of the amenities to cater to that family audience . . . For our Toronto project a lot of Millennials crave and enjoy our social amenities.
“At the foundation of all these different clubs is really the value proposition of what we provide whether it’s Winnipeg or Liberty Village, Toronto, Vancouver. The value proposition is really built around our group fitness program, highly curated, beautiful space, amazing instructors and providing that value proposition against the individual smaller boutiques or smaller clubs that don’t have that comparable value in terms of what people pay for versus an Altea membership.
“In Vancouver, in Winnipeg, in Toronto, we’re offering from 150 to over 185 classes a week as part of that membership price . . . Any of the studios that we designed into these clubs what we look at is how do we stack up these studio designs and the programming and the quality of that consumer experience against some of the best concepts in the UK or Spain and in New York. That’s how we look at our competition. We look at what are the best global brands out there and how do we compete against those types of products. That’s really setting the bar for ourselves to deliver that type of wellness experience.”
Altea Active: West 6, located in Southeast False Creek at 425 West 6th Avenue, will offer state-of-the-art strength and cardio, personal and small-group training, and luxury hospitality. It is currently under construction. The company describes the concept as where “five-star hospitality meets first-class fitness.”
Altea Active: West 6 will feature six boutique fitness studios within 43,000 square feet over three floors of Cressey Development Group’s newly constructed, LEED Gold Certified building, strategically located where the neighbourhoods of Fairview, Mount Pleasant, and Olympic Village converge.
Photo: Altea ActiveCatalyst Cafe + Wine Bar – Photo, Altea Active
Over 150 classes will be offered per week in their respective large- and small-group studios, such as: Boxing, HIIT, Hot Yoga, AntiGravity Fitness, Pilates, Barre, and Cycle. A Functional Turf Zone will also be available for sport and performance training.
Members will also benefit from luxe change rooms equipped with dry saunas and steam cabins, Aveda hair and body products, and haircare by Dyson; Recovery Lounge services include massage therapy, compression and vibration therapies, and cold plunge immersion; and a Meditation Lounge with its own Himalayan salt wall.
More than a workout space, Altea Active: West 6 will offer comfortable and bright relaxation spaces and informal meeting places in addition to the Catalyst Café + Wine Bar, where members and their guests can kick back and relax.
Altea Active Ottawa will offer over 129,000 square feet of boutique studio fitness, state-of-the-art strength and cardio, personal and small-group training, and luxury hospitality.
Altea’s new Ottawa flagship club will offer 200+ classes per week across nine multi-purpose group-fitness studios: a Hot Yoga Studio; a theatre style Cycle Studio; a Boxing Studio; an AntiGravity Fitness Studio; a Fusion Studio; a Small Group Training Studio; a Private Reformer Pilates Studio; a dedicated Women’s Only Studio, and the Signature Studio featuring HIIT, core, dance, boot camps and other strength and cardio sessions. The club will also feature an eight-court indoor Pickleball club; a five-lane 25-metre lap pool aquatic centre; a Women’s Only club with top-of-the-line Technogym cardio and strength training machines, as well as a Private Women’s Only fitness studio.
Altea Active Toronto (Image: Altea Active)Photo: Altea Active
Members will benefit from luxe change rooms equipped with dry saunas and steam cabins, Aveda hair and body products, and haircare by Dyson. Recovery Lounge services will include massage therapy, compression and vibration therapies, and cold plunge immersion, and a Meditation Lounge with its own Himalayan salt wall.
Altea Active in Ottawa will also feature co-working and social amenities, including: Topgolf Swing Suites sports simulators, and a 6,200-square-foot outdoor Sky Deck that will be used for member socials and private functions. The club will also feature comfortable and bright relaxation spaces and informal meeting places including a smoothie bar, Starbucks, and the Catalyst Kitchen & Cocktails, where members and their guests can kick back and relax.
Altea Active Ottawa will also offer an Active Kid’s Club featuring a Mini Gym, arts and crafts, and quiet zones to support members with children ages 0 to 11 years.
“Altea Active is not a gym,” said Michael Nolan, Co-founder, and COO of Altea Active. “It’s a social wellness experience that offers premium studio fitness programs, equipment, and services to like-minded, wellness-conscious people sharing the same journey. Our mission since day one has been to elevate and encourage the social connections that organically develop in our clubs.”
Nolan and David Wu previously owned 16 Movati Athletic locations for close to 20 years before selling the business in 2017.
“After we left Movati, we said to ourselves how do we take this Movati business model and how do we improve it even better for that consumer experience,” said Wu. “Really, what we looked at for this upcoming Altea brand is we wanted to curate a better consumer experience by providing them with more social components and social wellness components.”
Craig and Ashkan, founder of upscale accessory brand St. Ash, discuss some of the challenges seen in Toronto’s downtown luxury zone, the threat of Yorkdale, Nordstrom’s exit from Canada and what’s happening with Saks Fifth Avenue, and what’s being seen with luxury retail in Paris and Milan.
If you prefer to listen to the audio version, it is available below:
The Interview Series audio podcasts by Retail Insider Canada are available on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, TuneIn, Google Play, or through our dedicated RSS feed for Overcast and other podcast players. Also check out our The Weekly audio podcast where Craig and Lee discuss popular content published on Retail Insider which is part of the The Retail Insider Podcast Network.
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Background Music Credit: Hard Boiled Kevin MacLeod (incompetech.com). Licensed under Creative Commons: By Attribution 3.0 License. http://creativecommons.org/licenses/by/3.0/
Retail Insider is streamlining its Canadian retail news from around the web to include a handful of top news stories that can be viewed quickly during the day. Here are the top stories from the past 24 hours.
For Canadian shoppers there are a couple of scenarios that might feel familiar within the current movement against single-use plastic bags (SUPB).
Here’s one. You show up at your local grocery store in a jurisdiction that has banned SUPBs only to realize you’ve left your reusable shopping bags at home. You either have to buy more reusable bags at the store, or return home to retrieve them. Many of us already have drawers bursting with these cotton, or plastic woven tote bags.
Here’s another one: you’re at the automatic checkout machine of your local drug store and you select to purchase a paper bag or reusable bag at the terminal, but there are no bags at the station, nor any available staff members to retrieve them.
These are just a couple of the pain points in the mission by jurisdictions to reduce or eliminate single-use plastic waste from our daily lives and from the environment. While eliminating single-use plastic is a commendable and sensible pursuit, there are various unintended consequences that continue to hinder this movement. But stakeholders and experts tell Retail Insider there are opportunities to stamp out these chokepoints to maintain convenience for Canadian shoppers, while also embracing the reusable shopping bag for innovative marketing initiatives.
Chokepoints in the battle against single use bags
Shoppers Drug Mart Self-Checkouts (Image: Dustin Fuhs)
There are currently more than 100 local governments across Canada that have banned SUPBs, said Greg Wilson, director of government relations with the Retail Council of Canada in B.C. “And in December, the federal government is banning a whole bunch of plastics, including plastic bags.”
Indeed, the federal government has already banned the manufacture and import for sale of single-use plastics, including shopping bags. That ban came into effect in December, 2022, but the sale of SUPBs and other single use plastic items will be banned beginning this December, giving retailers time to adjust and use up their existing inventory.
This movement is a good thing when it comes to sustainability in retail, and retailers are generally pleased that governments are taking action, Wilson said. The challenge is the bans are varied and layered across jurisdictions. “For example, in B.C… we have on our website 14 different municipalities with bans in place right now. Most of them are identical. A few of them are not identical.”
For instance, a customer at a grocery store in Vancouver cannot receive an SUPB to carry their groceries, but just across Boundary Road at a store in Burnaby, plastic bags are still available for a small charge.
In some cases, the bans don’t apply to certain types of plastic bags meant for fruits and veggies or nails and screws, Wilson said. “There can be some “weird exceptions” that can be tough for a retailer to understand.
Wilson acknowledges the scenario in which a customer wants to buy a reusable bag at the automatic checkout, but staff are not available to retrieve one. “It’s tough to hire staff, and so a lot more retailers are now moving towards automatic checkouts,” Wilson said. “Those automatic checkouts are great, but it’s important for retailers to examine that customer experience as well.”
Are reusable shopping bags better for the environment?
“The presumption that reusable bags lead to more sustainable outcomes is somewhat based on a faulty premise,” said Calvin Lakhan, a waste management research scientist at York University.
“Not all reusable bags are created equal, “Lakhan said in an interview, noting that some bags that are considered reusable are so thin they can’t be used more than a few times. “The durability of these cheaper reusable bags is quite questionable.”
Manufacturers and retailers should be providing stronger bags to last much longer, Lakhan said. But even then, the environmental benefit is dubious. “Some reusable bags have to be used hundreds or even thousands of times before you yield an environmental benefit relative to the plastic bag.”
“The term single use plastic bag can be a misnomer as well,” Lakhan added. Many people do re-use them for carrying their lunch, or use them as garbage bags.
Another unintended consequence of the SUPB ban is many Canadians have stockpiles of cotton or plastic reusable bags.
For example, a cotton bag needs to be used 50-150 times to have less impact on the climate compared to one SUPB, the report said. “A thick and durable polypropylene bag must be used for an estimated 10-20 times, and a slimmer but still reusable polyethylene bag 5-10 times, to have the same climate impacts as a SUPB. This requires not only durability of the bags, but also consumers to reuse each bag many times.”
Lakhan said he’s among the many Canadians with dozens of reusable bags in his car. “You forget it in your car, or you forget it at home, and then you buy more and then you end up stockpiling these bags that use so much more environmental resources to make.”
Finding ways to innovate with reusable bags
Value Village with $2.49 Medium Reusable Bags (Image: Dustin Fuhs)
Those reusable bags are better left in your drawer or closet than going to landfills or polluting our greenspaces and waterways, said Lisa Hutcheson, managing partner and retail strategist with JC Williams Group.
Ending SUPBs “is kind of a no-brainer initiative” for retailers, Hutcheson said.
But the challenge is switching to a bag program that doesn’t end up polluting the world with an endless supply of reusable bags. That effort must blend education, convenience and even clever marketing strategies that create a win-win-win for the environment, the consumer and the retailer, Hutcheson said.
If the bags are strong and useful, then customers will carry those branded bags everywhere they shop. It’s a simple little marketing win, Hutcheson said. “I bought something from Browns recently, and (the item came) in a much hardier bag…I use it all the time because it’s a really great reusable bag.”
To prevent reusable bag overload, retailers have a more involved role to play. They should leverage their social media channels, service apps, and omnichannel messaging to remind people to bring their reusable bags and to emphasize why these rules are in place to begin with so people start developing an innate respect for the damage bags can do for the environment, Hutcheson said.
Moreover, retailers could develop a loyalty program through a QR code on a bag that rewards shoppers with some kind of gamified incentive every time they bring the same bag into their store — or even a network of stores.
Those rewards could be shared among the customers but also other organizations involved with environmental stewardship, Hutcheson said.
“There are ways the retailer can have some fun in educating customers (about re-using the same reusable bags), because I think once they start thinking about this, it’s not a pain in the neck,” Hutcheson said. It’s about helping educate and incentivizing people to form retail habits that help the environment.
Retail Insider reached out to two of Canada’s largest grocery companies Sobeys and Loblaws with questions about SUPB bans and reusable bag strategies — and potential solutions to ease the pain points for customers, but neither company responded by deadline.
Because policymakers are unlikely to wind back SUPB bans, the onus will increasingly fall on customers, Lakhan said. Ultimately, the bans only make sense if we continue to routinely re-use our reusable bags.
Future Mott 32 at the Shangri-la Hotel in Downtown Toronto (Image: Dustin Fuhs)
After opening a flagship location in Vancouver several years ago, the Mott 32 global luxury brand for Chinese fine dining has its sights set on Toronto for its next venture into Canada.
Co-founder MalcolmWood said the brand currently has eight locations worldwide.
The Vancouver location was the first franchise for the brand about seven years ago.
Wood said the company expects to open a Toronto location in the third to fourth quarter of this year.
Mott 32 Vancouver (Image: Mott 32)
Retail Insider confirmed that the new location will be at the vacated Momofuku Toronto restaurant inside the Shangri-La hotel at 180 University Avenue. The David Chang-owned restaurant opened in 2012 at the University Avenue hotel and shuttered on December 23rd, 2022.
“I’ve got a strong connection to Canada. A lot of my family are here. I never actually lived in Canada but my two brothers did. I’m actually the only one of my immediate family that doesn’t have a Canadian citizenship. I was the oldest one so I had already left home by the time mom moved here for a number of years.
“I’ve spent a lot of time here. I absolutely love the outdoors. I’ve got a fishing business up in Terrace (BC), Skeena (Spey Lodge). I really fell in love with the Canadian wilderness. And as someone who is passionate about food the thing that really draws me to BC itself is the abundance of great qualities – fishing, the coastline, the Pacific Ocean, all the mentality towards farming, sustainability and produce out of the Fraser River where we get a lot of our products. Even the wine scene here is great.
“So naturally Vancouver was the natural move to make our first international franchise and it also had a strong connection to Hong Kong. So we knew if the product was well received in Hong Kong it would be well received in Vancouver because it’s kind of a like-minded population.”
Mott 32 Vancouver (Image: Mott 32)
Wood said the brand would love to have a Mott 32 in Toronto, Montreal and all the major gateway cities in Canada.
“We don’t necessarily go and find locations and then put one there. We wait for the right opportunity to come and then we explore it. I think that’s been one of the successes of Mott 32. We’re not trying to expand. We are presented opportunities and we take the ones that are right, the locations that are right, the spaces that are right,” he said.
“I think a lot of restaurateurs force their concepts overseas . . . One of our strengths is waiting for the right partners, waiting for the right locations and that gives you a more robust restaurant when you do it that way.”
Wood is a leading influence in the food and beverage industry and has been a driver for change in the food and hospitality sector. He co-founded the multi-award-winning Maximal Concepts, which began in 2011 and has been responsible for over 40 different concepts but is best known for its flagship restaurant brand, Mott 32.
Mott 32 is the most awarded Chinese restaurant in the world and is the first Chinese restaurant brand from Asia to be franchised internationally in eight key gateway cities around the world such as Vancouver, Dubai, Las Vegas, Cebu, Bangkok, Singapore, Hong Kong, and Seoul.
Mott 32 (Image: Joyce Wang)
The first Mott 32 opened in 2014 in Hong Kong.
“It was one of the boldest concepts we created. We saw a lack of fine dining Chinese in a way that we liked to enjoy it. What I mean is at the time when we opened Mott 32 in Hong Kong, to get a very high calibre Chinese meal, you would end up going to a white table cloth restaurant most likely in a five-star hotel,” said Wood.
“We like lively music. Dark atmosphere. Candle lights. Having a bar is a central piece in a restaurant and we liked different dishes. Different regions of China.”
Wood said Mott 32 broke the mold by applying all those different dining experiences into one place. The company made the move to disrupt the space and it received the buy in from the local community in Hong Kong but he said even more important he got the buy in from his Chinese mother and grandmother.
“Created in Hong Kong, “Mott 32” pays homage to 32 Mott Street in New York, where the city’s first Chinese convenience store opened in 1891. The store served as the nucleus for what is now a vibrant Chinatown in one of the most dynamic cities,” said the brand on its website. “Our Vancouver restaurant is located at the base of the famed Arthur Erickson-designed tower in the Coal Harbour district.
“The provenance of our ingredients is of paramount importance to us as we embrace unique flavours discovered globally. We practice ethical sourcing by using organic and sustainable ingredients, wherever possible, while also working closely with farms to ensure the uncompromising quality of the food our culinary team prepares.
“Our chefs utilize the latest in modern and innovative cooking techniques from around the world to create our dishes, which are principally Cantonese with some Beijing and Szechuan influences. Our food aims to bring the best out of time-honored recipes passed down from generation to generation; it is this particular level of modernity, combined with a respect for tradition, that makes Mott 32 so spectacularly unique.”
Future Mott 32 at the Shangri-la Hotel in Downtown Toronto (Image: Dustin Fuhs)
Wood is a passionate environmental filmmaker and social entrepreneur, who is involved in multiple marketing and production initiatives through environmental film and media. This includes the world-renowned production “A Plastic Ocean”, one of the most awarded environmental documentaries in 2017, and was described by Sir David Attenborough as “the most important film of our time”.
His goal is to work on a set of environmental films that will be released over the next few years to highlight the global issues we are facing as well as the solutions. His latest film “The Last Glaciers” co-produced by his media company, Far North Productions, tackles humanity’s greatest challenge, climate change, and was supported by some of the most highly respected scientific institutions globally, including NASA, MIT, INAIGEM, ICIMOD, Arctic Basecamp, GLACIOCLIM, Oxford University, and Climate Outreach.
Awards he has received include the top “40 Hong Kong under 40’s” by Prestige, “Top Financier” by Money Asia, “Hong Kong Living Influencer Award” from Hong Kong Living, and the “Green Warrior Award” from Green is the New Black. He was also selected as an ambassador for the United Nations as the first paraglider, speed flyer, and filmmaker to join UN Environment’s campaign ‘Mountain Heroes’.
“Due to his passion for the environment, Malcolm has been on the board of several charities. He is actively involved in their various projects, including Plastic Oceans Foundation, Hong Kong Shark Foundation and Skeena Wild. He also founded Meru Projects, a foundation and green fund created to support charities, NGOs and research around technologies that will create a better and greener environment for children with a focus on environmental education,” according to his bio.
“As an avid outdoor enthusiast and conservationist, Malcolm can be found in his spare time scaling mountains or flying from them. He enjoys exploring the mountains with a range of outdoor mountain sports including Speed Riding, Paragliding, Mountaineering, and Para-Alpinism.”
Craig and Larry discuss retail at airports in Canada, including the need to improve the customer experience and offerings in terminals. Leung says airports are missing out on major opportunities to drive consumer sales to grow revenue.
A transcript of the conversation can be found below.
If you prefer to listen to the audio version, it is available below:
The Interview Series audio podcasts by Retail Insider Canada are available on Apple Podcasts, Stitcher, TuneIn, Google Play, or through our dedicated RSS feed for Overcast and other podcast players. Also check out our The Weekly audio podcast where Craig and Lee discuss popular content published on Retail Insider which is part of the The Retail Insider Podcast Network.
Featured during this interview:
Larry Leung, Principal and Customer Experience Officer at Transformidy
Transcription
Craig Patterson Welcome to the Retail Insider Interview Series. I’m your host, Craig Patterson. And we’re joined here with Larry Leung. He’s the principal of Transformidy and as a customer experience strategist as well as an expert in all kinds of different areas. We’re going to be talking a bit about airport retail today. Welcome, Larry.
Larry Leung Thank you for having me, Craig.
Craig Patterson Let’s talk a little bit about airport retail here. We could do a bit of a focus on luxury retail. What are you seeing here in terms of retail and airports right now, before and after gates?
Larry Leung Well, it’s been very interesting. So GTA just reported their 2022 financial numbers. And so I have them in front of me, they made $1.4 billion in revenue. And, interestingly, only $150 million or so came from concessions. And so that’s not a really big number, they get a lot more from landing fees, for example, or maybe parking fees, and even the airport improvement piece that you and I are paying per every ticket, but it hasn’t been as robust as it used to be for the airport due to the pandemic and less people traveling, but there has been some improvements. So now we’re seeing about $23 to $28 on average per passenger coming through and there were 35 – 36 million passengers going through the Pearson Airport last year. So those are pretty good numbers, can they get better? Definitely because a Pearson has seen almost 50 million passengers back before the pandemic. So we’re still a little ways to go when it comes to recovery.
Craig Patterson Are we seeing other airports, perhaps with higher numbers are seeing more retail spending and a percentage of retail being the overall mix of revenue for the airports?
Larry Leung So North America has never been as robust when it comes to having a bigger retail mix as a component of financial. So if you think about non-aeronautical revenue, which is the total part of revenue, that airport would receive on flights, they have always been at best 20-30% of all total revenue for an airport. Compare that to Asian airports, which is up to 50 plus percent, say Dubai airport 52%. Shanghai is 40% where their revenues mostly is not about flying activities. And you have seen some of the best airports in a world like Singapore Changi Airport just won Skytrax. Number one again, while they spent a lot of their capital in providing a robust customer experience of passenger experience through a ring forest to 24 hour shopping and having eateries that makes sense for a lot of people.
Craig Patterson It’s a lot of the retail that we’re seeing at airports luxury retail? I’ve seen that in quite a few airports around the world. Obviously, there’s not just luxury retail, there’s all kinds of others, but what are you seeing in terms of the retail mix? What’s driving all that revenue for these really productive airports for the retail part?
Larry Leung That’s a really good question. If we do a tour of leading airports, what we’re going to see is that the luxury retailers are mostly based in the international terminals or section of any terminal rather than domestic or US. And the question would be, should there be more luxury retailers? Or should Canadian retailers selling luxury brands, while think about maybe having a little boutique within the terminal because let’s face it, we have amazing Canadian shoppers, and they are buying luxury so they could be going to Montreal from Toronto for an opening or maybe a show but they may still want to buy luxury right? So what are we catering to those people travelling in Canada? I’d say maybe not enough.
Craig Patterson Who’s behind the retail mix? Like it’s it’s airport travel? You know, there’s a Bugari store, I think still probably in terminal three in Toronto, or Hermes has a store in Vancouver. Who operates those? Is it the retailers themselves? Or is it a third party?
Larry Leung depending on which country you’re in, and depending on who is managing the airport, how the retail mix may be a little bit different. So say Pearson for example, a lot of the space will be managed by a third party vendor that will be report up to Pearson’s senior management and usually contracts will be between three to five years and usually would be a little rent specific plus may be a percentage of sales. So depending on the contract that a retailer would have, they would have an alcove, maybe at the airport, and it would be very interesting that you know, such as Starbucks, for example, a lot of people expect to see Starbucks. How come I can’t mobile order, it’s the same thing. So it’s a third party bringing in Starbucks, having them operate as a franchisee. So you and I wouldn’t know that. In fact, they’re not part of the Starbucks system. That’s, that’s why we cannot use our app for the longest time. And it’s the same thing with retail. So if you look at all the retail Directory Online, some of them may not even list out their airport terminal presence at all. So if you look into Toronto Pearson, for example, not all the major retail brands that are in Toronto, at the Toronto Airport are listed.
Craig Patterson These are not duty free retailers like or is there any sort of a discount that a shopper would be getting versus going to a store on Bloor Street or Alberni Street, let’s say in Toronto or Vancouver?
Larry Leung If you’re not part of the duty free offering, then I think you have the retailer would have a little more option available for sales based on their own corporate directives. And within duty free, there will be more of an overall look into how to manage the customer mix and what should be discounted. But I seldom see a lot of discounts on retail brands, maybe we see more of that with alcohol as a bundle is broader than retail brands working as a bundle.
Craig Patterson Now duty free retail, it doesn’t seem to be quite as big here in Canada, we’ve obviously got duty free retailers, but you go to places like say, Australia where they have, obviously, duty free retailers in the airport and even downtown. But let’s talk about that a little bit. Are you seeing any missed opportunities here for duty duty free retail in Canada? Generally?
Larry Leung A lot of people ask me this question, “How come we don’t have 30 Free on arrivals or maybe at the city?”. So we have seen it. In many Asian countries. You mentioned Australia where there is a downtown shop where people can buy. So this is part of the Canadian government directive for the time being that they don’t have a directive to allow for duty free on Arrivals or at any city centers. Part of it, it’s managing the clientele. Most of the alcohol selling its provincial and not federal. And so they may have a word to say if you spent suddenly sell duty free alcohol at a lower price than, say, your local liquor store. So that could be a problem in itself. And then other brands are just not engaged enough to ask well, why not have duty free? But certainly there are many airports operators have been asking, should we at least think about it? And maybe there are opportunities wasted, especially on the arrival side where if you think about the Canadian airport designs, arrivals are typically not the place you want to be in. And they they’re usually boring, and you just want to get out. But yet, airport arrivals is the first connection and touch point for many international travelers coming into the country. And so there are actually opportunities to showcase what the country and the city is about through duty free and other shopping opportunities.
Craig Patterson Do you think that we might see a change in duty free retail in Canada in terms of say having a large Duty Free Store in? Well, I mean that an airport, which I guess we sort of do but in a downtown core, like it was the case of Vancouver until maybe about a decade ago.
Larry Leung I hope so because if you think about duty free for many decades ago, many airports designed the layout of the terminal so that they can Duty Free right after security and immigration. As security and immigration process has become a lot more difficult for some people to navigate. And a lot of people have had a lot more anxiety going through this process than the urge of wanting to buy something right after security or immigration would be reduced. And I think with that particular mindset in place, a lot of people may just skip duty free and just go to the gate or maybe go grab a coffee. So many airports should be looking at all the transit traffic, looking at how people are looking at merchandise, what type of merchandise are people looking for when they’re looking at Duty Free? And then maybe re-think about how they should we design the delivery as part of the overall passenger experience. Because if you look at the numbers, almost two thirds of the people going through Pearson are transferred passengers. If you are transferred passengers going to say international they would have already passed to duty free when they get to so so maybe they wouldn’t even hit Duty Free coming into the terminal and so we have to rethink well how do we modify motivate those passengers into spending more time looking at what’s offered rather than sitting at the gate? Which is not what the airport wants anyways.
Craig Patterson And what about it I know for myself I’ve started only doing carry on luggage. Are there options out there for people that still want to shop but may not necessarily bring it in on their very limited luggage which may be packed to the packed to the gills like I do?
Larry Leung In Canada, no. Canada has not really evolving innovator into thinking about shopping experiences beyond ‘buy and carry’, which is what we have been doing for many decades. But if you look at London Heathrow, for example, they have a world class shopping program whereby you can book in advance to get a shopper to help you get to security and then you can buy many products. Some of them you can carry on board with you some you can get them to hold it so that when you come home, you can pick it up, some can even deliver it to your home address or to your destination in so having extra availability for delivery or pickup allows a lot of shoppers to actually spend time and think maybe I need to go to Burberry and buy something and look for something rather than go into a boutique because I didn’t have time to. And then I can shop the way I want to and don’t have to carry everything with me.
Craig Patterson Now let’s talk a little bit about the arrival part of the retail experience. But it’d be quite challenging, I guess, as a first question to reconfigure things spatially to accommodate some retail which would facilitate this vision?
Larry Leung It would be because if you think about but but the airport can think about retail in many ways. You have ‘direct retailing’, which will be at the terminal. They can also have a relationship whereby if you’re passing through the terminal, that you can actually get a coupon for use in the city. So we have seen this in Singapore. So if you’re flying Singapore Airlines previously, you can use your boarding pass, and then you can go to many shops in the city, and then be able to get discounts for products and services. So Toronto Pearson can do a similar program to cater and build those relationships with retail brands too.
Craig Patterson How about shopping on planes? This is something that I think we saw years ago, just perhaps with alcohol and maybe cigarettes, but what about a full catalog experience or something, I guess that would be a little bit more digital?
Larry Leung We have seen we have seen over the years that there is reduction of Duty Free onboard, because they’re number one products are heavy. And if people are not buying them, then it’s contributing to, you know, potentially more gas meaning more expensive cost of running the flight. I think for airlines, there is always going to be a place for duty free. I think it’s more important to find products that are unique to the airline, to the destination, to the country that people want to buy. So if you have a limited edition teddy bear, from say, HBC, for example, catered for any Canadian airline, maybe those could be a good seller, versus just something you can also get at your destination or at home. And an alcohol and cigarettes are two things that many airlines used to rely on. I don’t know if those would be the motivator for many travelers today. Because number one, they’re heavy. Number two, if you have a connecting flight, chances are the outcome needs to be we packed into your suitcase or that it may not get to security. And so with that in mind, alcohol sales is not amazing when when you have to transfer flights.
Craig Patterson Are we seeing some airports around the world using retail as an actual attraction and draw and I don’t mean draw specifically just to fly but but something which is going to bring people in and a luxury wing within within almost like a Yorkdale type of situation. Within an airport Are you seeing retailing itself becoming an attraction beyond just what we have in an airport like Singapore with its cool ‘other stuff’ that it has?
Larry Leung So many new airports coming in. The one thing they can think about is people are not going to use a ‘check-in counter’, to do all the check ins and so there will be space available outside of security to actually engage the customer. And we have seen many cities, reclaiming that space and building restaurants and building smaller retail spaces for people to hang out before they get into the secured area. We have seen Edmonton do a very interesting job thinking about bringing customers off site, having shopping available off site and then getting them to go to the airport and it will be interesting to see how that is being evolved as a concept. Would they build a partnership for transportation, maybe even have more check in areas directly at the shopping center. That way, then people don’t have to worry about what’s going to happen to my luggage, what’s going to happen to the time? I need to go to the airport? That type of feeling. If that is solved, then they would have more comfort in shopping, you know at the outlet mall. And so I’m definitely looking into Edmonton as an example of what’s next and what else can be can happen outside of Edmonton.
Craig Patterson What sort of improvements to see that could be done to retail at airports in Canada or be at luxury or otherwise?
Larry Leung I think the number one thing really is to understand the customers. Where are they going? The more we know where they’re going, the more we will be able to cater specific solutions for them, the retail mix. A lot of the brands that I’ve talked to they, they think about every passenger as the same quality passenger. But we know that passengers are flying economy, Premium Economy and Business and first class, what are their needs exactly? From a retail shopping experience, maybe some of them do want more catered shopping experiences that I can be pre-booked, and that it turns into, instead of a one hour timeframe, maybe I can block time for a three hour experience at the airport so that you’re not just shopping, maybe you can get food, as you shop, get some champagne, that would be something that I think a lot the luxury shoppers may want or premium customers may want rather than to stay inside a lounge. Now, if you’re thinking about economy passengers, while they may be eating at a fast food restaurant, or maybe they’re going to Disney because they’re a family. Then you have to ask yourself, if you’re taking your family to Disney, what are things that we can help them to make sure that their trip is as comfortable and as fun as possible. And finally, Premium Economy passengers. That’s the one segment that has been, in other cases, not thought about. They are the ones who are paying to two and a half times more than a normal economy passenger maybe not a business class price point. So they don’t have access to lounge, but then they are traveling a little better. So what will be some of the elevated quality experiences available for them? And I think that’s sometimes not mapped out. And for a luxury retailer, well, you don’t have just one type of customer, you have multiple types of customers. Then you have to ask yourself, how are you courting them? How are you helping them number one, that they that you exist at the airport? And number two, what are some of the products available at different price range so that they will be managing that expectation and have that amazing shopping experience?
Craig Patterson Interesting, interesting. One thing I find is we’re going to airports more earlier than ever, I think basically, and I always feel a little bit stressed. I mean, you’re going through security and whatnot, I don’t want to miss my flight, I just have a general feeling of anxiety at the airport. Is there anything you could suggest that would get people maybe to relax more besides supplying people with alcohol?
Larry Leung Alcohol, it definitely worked for a lot of people, I think part of it is to educate the the passenger what’s happening, and what’s happening at the airport much earlier. So typically, people buy their tickets anywhere from three to six months in advance of their travel. Especially if they are flying for leisure over business. And so that means you have three to six months time to tell people what’s happening, whether or not there may be some new environmental or cleanliness procedure that they have to think about in a while about lineups that they have to think about. That’s something that would reduce anxiety because I think a lot of people don’t like waiting in lines. And if you tell them in advance that your flight is at a very peak time. And that by going earlier, or maybe even pay to to book a appointment for security, which is available in other airports, then maybe that will reduce your anxiety and more importantly after you go through security and maybe immigration – what else is at the terminal so that your trip will be as amazing as possible in though a lot of people may not know that their manicure and pedicure services available at Pearson. While they may not know because usually people who book manicure and pedicure appointments, you just go in hope that there will be spaces available for you. So maybe in the future, vendors should think about while maybe allowing people to book and give them some grace so that in case something happens, then they are not penalized.
Craig Patterson I think that’s an issue generally not knowing what’s at the airport. I know for myself, I had to ask that question as Bulgari. Does it still have a store at Pearson Airport in Toronto? Because we don’t see a lot of directories or advertising. But it makes sense for airports to really, I guess, educate people through some sort of even just marketing and advertising of what’s there like we have a Ferragamo store at the Toronto Airport. We’ve got a Gucci shop in Vancouver at the airport. You know, because they’re not things you even see necessarily in a directory at least not publicly that’s that’s prominent and available.
Larry Leung Number one that the digital directory needs to be more intelligent. So if you go to any of the Canadian airports, digital directory and type luxury while may it may not show you all the stores available that sells you luxury goods, that’s number one and number two, really having the experience mapped out earlier. So if you’re a luxury shopper, you may need a few things well how can the airport help you plan the trip so that you know those doors exists. And then number two, the goods are available that you want to buy exist. And and hopefully there will be something more limited edition specifically catered to that city or the airport, as we have seen in a Starbucks all over the world that you may have a mug. With that one city people love to collect those. So why not have that also, in any number of shops in Toronto, or in any Canadian airport.
Craig Patterson That makes sense. And even just the wayfinding situation, I know that I don’t know why. And I guess the same thing maybe with the path and Toronto and Union Station and a few others, but I almost get lost the wayfinding situation, even if they attempt signage doesn’t seem to be their activity suggestions for improving this fiasco that people like me experience?
Larry Leung Well, certainly airports do not want you to get lost. So they’re trying their best with their Wayfinding, what we have seen is that technology is not the solution. Most people already have a backpack or maybe a carry on. Plus, if they use their phone for Wayfinding, it actually does not work. What I love is a luxury wing, for example, if there is a specific wing, just for luxury retailers, and that there are good signage for it. And I think it will be it will make it easier to locate various stores. And more importantly, I think airlines can partner with those brands directly. And they know that you’re going to say Vancouver Airport, and so they know where your case is and what retailers are available near that gate area or near in that terminal. Why not tell you in advance, by telling you in advance, maybe you can make an appointment in the future or maybe even hold goods and products so that you can just pick it up. You don’t have to wait in line just go in by and pick it up, make life easier for people. It’s the it’s going to be something that we should see. And are some of the things I’m working with brands on because I feel like just like you said, the traveler experience is not as seamless as the advertising is telling you and they can do better.
Craig Patterson And speaking of doing better, do you have any good examples of some airports that can be globally that have amazing retail that you’ve seen?
Larry Leung Well, we talked about Singapore Changi Airport, we talked about London Heathrow Airport, Paris, and Amsterdam both have really good international airports that really showcased a their character, their identity with the retail experience. And when they have no specific stores that talks about who they are, then you really want to go, they do a really good job showcasing the airport using content creators. And the content creators are not just working for their channels, but working beyond the channels to showcase what’s possible. And I think that’s one area Canadian airports could use a little more help using content creators to go outside of the airport social media, into telling people in Canada and outside of Canada, what’s possible because like you said, maybe you ask yourself, are certain brands still available? Are they even in the brands directory? Online? Maybe not, right? So I think more can be done to tell people what’s going on.
Craig Patterson Are we falling behind compared to other countries are other places around the world in terms of our airport retail?
Larry Leung I think maybe it’s a holistic strategy that the Canadian government all the way down to tourism boards should take on with the help of airlines and airports in really building out a shopping retail strategy. I don’t think you can really solve the question “Are we falling behind?” putting the responsibility one stakeholder I think all the stakeholders can work together to come up with well, why these shoppers? Can we can we really showcase Toronto and any other Toronto Canadian cities that you’re not just here to sightsee, but here to shop. And how and why? And why is the airport the place to shop? I think those are the questions that we need to work together to address together and then build a strategy behind that.
Craig Patterson You were recently quoted in an article in Retail Insider around bringing more local retailers I think into airports Tell me a little bit more about what you were thinking there.
Larry Leung Bringing local retailers not easy. I’m gonna start that because you know, it takes a long time to curate. It takes a long time to bring in some of the stores and finally rent is really high. But many airports are suffering from the same, “Same old, same old”. They look the same, they feel the same. They have the same retailers and so for a an airport to differentiate itself and really showcase who they are. They have to think local and maybe worked with the local brands to develop them. So instead of just getting any local brands who’s willing to pay rent, maybe have an Innovation Lab and develop local What how a brand can do better at the airport and beyond. Because it’s not just a retail experience, it’s a Canadian experience going to have a store in a Canadian airport, right. So if I think beyond just retail, and think it’s a Canadiana exercise that more can be done to educate you awareness, maybe even systems. Because if you imagine that if smaller local stores don’t use may not have the purchasing power may not have the same it know how into building a better experience, maybe that’s something the airport can help them into doing something more for them to make them a success story and who doesn’t like a success story, especially local success story. And that was something I would want to, you know, get into and buy if I have the opportunity to see local vendors in the airport.
Craig Patterson Are you aware of any initiatives coming down the pipeline that might say improve retail at airports in Canada?
Larry Leung Well, I have seen, you know, we were we just talked about local, I’ve seen more of that in Vancouver Airport in, you know, parts of Calgary, we have seen some of that, right. So I encourage more, the Canadian airport authorities to really look locally, maybe even work with some of the local universities to come up with solutions. Because if money is an issue, well, then let’s figure out something maybe work with the banks on that. It’s an idea issue that we would like to work with universities and coming up ideas on how to build a maybe a wing that just like we talked about electric wing, why not build a wing, specifically with local artists, and local vendors selling things? That could be a very interesting idea, because it would be very different across Canada. And more importantly, I want the different airports to work with each other. So if I’m going between Vancouver and Toronto, there are distinctiveness uniqueness between the airports and the city themselves. Well, why not have them cross promote each other? Why aren’t all the Canadian airports cross promoting between each other so that it doesn’t matter where I go, I’m gonna always feel a little bit of Canada, at the airports. And I think that may be important. And it could be just as simple as seeing more Canadian flags, because I think in a lot of the airports, we don’t always see the Canadian flag. And that could be as simple as just showing up. That’s a Canadian flag. So we know that story is local.
Craig Patterson If airports were able to significantly increase their overall revenue from retail offerings, do you think there could be a bit of a reduction saying – this is for the average person – for a reduction in the ticket price of some flights? Do you think there could be any savings passed on to consumers ultimately?
Larry Leung Well, many people don’t realize that many Canadian airports have to pay rent to the government. And they also pay tax on top of that, right. So it’s, it’s a lot of work for them. And that’s why some of them have airport improvement fees. And if they are able to have a better retail mix, that really go after different clientele and showcase that what’s possible, and why you should shop at the airport, potentially, with an increased sale, maybe they can reduce some of the airport improvement fees, because some of them get to the $38 I believe Winnipeg is charging $38 per passenger. And so you may have a flair airlines coming at $9 per flight. Well, that doesn’t matter because the airport improvement feeds are already four times as high as the airfare and so Canadian Canadians wouldn’t necessarily see lower ticket prices. If we don’t see some of those fees go down.
Craig Patterson Now, Larry, is there a way to increase dwell time to get consumers to spend more at the airport?
Larry Leung I think the goal for airports is to increase dwell time. So we want you to get to the airport earlier because there’s so much to do at the airport, whether or not it’s an experienced base item or a retail shopping solution. Airports want you to spend more money, the goal is to find ways to to help you get there to inspire you. So part of it will be education, to the public, part of it would be to showcase what’s possible and redesign things like duty free so that people are not going through duty free after they get to go to security, for example, or immigration, when they’re the most interested in and have the highest stress. And then you know, think about shopping maybe at the gate rather than having rather than having all the retail at one location, maybe duty free and what can I buy and then pick up at the gate. Those could be some things that people may want to do because Pearson for example, already has an online solution. They have an E commerce platform so why can I just buy from there and then tell you went my thickness and then you just, you know, ship it to me kind of like duty free.
Craig Patterson I remember we had an article in retail insider a while ago that Pearson Airport had launched this ecommerce platform As far as you’re aware, Larry hasn’t been a success?
Larry Leung Why should people buy online appears and rather than Amazon, and you have to show customer what’s happening, you have to show customers beyond your own social media, on content platforms, they think really talked about it with a blog to or narked city or view. After you posted, we reached out because we, I wrote a piece and then I reach out to them specifically call that out and say, we would love to do a thing with you on your ecommerce, but they declined. So then that question is, well, why why? Why is there Why should people shop online, and then get them shipped home? I don’t know, I don’t know if I see that association. Not many airports do the same thing with an E commerce platform like that. And if they do, it’s more for the E commerce component. It’s more for tickets to sell for like experiences like Singapore Changi Airport, you buy tickets for many things. And so because they’re so big, it’s so big. I am going there in November, and my flight lands at 11:30pm. And my next flight is not to 9am. And so we are going to be at the airport, living at the airport overnight, and we’ll be having fun because there will be retail, there will be food, there’s a movie theater, there are lounges, there are a lot of different things. And we’re going to take pictures and videos for us to tell you, if Toronto decides to be a 24 hour airport, or any of the Canadian airports went up 44 hours, then what do they need to do? You know, something we didn’t talk about, but I feel like we should talk about in the future employees. And there are 1000s and 1000s of employees working for airports, right. And most of the time by 9:30pm there’s nothing for them, other than Tim Hortons. Well, that’s a problem for them. Right? Then they cannot even spend money. And so that adds to your sale. And then and then maybe further I like the Edmonton idea. I just think their execution is not very good. But I like it. Because I’m in say South Korea, you know, a place we can go in the future. They actually built airport city, or they airport cities where they have good transportation to bring you to different places. So people go in had plastic surgery at the airport city and then they go back to the airport.
Craig Patterson This has been a fascinating conversation. Thank you so much, Larry, for joining us today, talking about airport retail in Canada and globally.
Larry Leung Thank you so much for having me.
Craig Patterson This has been Larry Leung. He’s the principal at Transformidy. He’s a customer experience strategist there as well as an expert in all kinds of things around consumer behavior and airports and all kinds of other things. And I’m Craig Patterson, I’m the founder, CEO and publisher of Retail Insider Media. I’m also the host here of the Retail Insider video interview series. Thank you so much everyone for joining us whether or not you’re doing this by video or on your local podcast channel. Thank you so much. Take care and bye for now.
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