Craig and Larry discuss retail at airports in Canada, including the need to improve the customer experience and offerings in terminals. Leung says airports are missing out on major opportunities to drive consumer sales to grow revenue.
A transcript of the conversation can be found below.
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Featured during this interview:
- Larry Leung, Principal and Customer Experience Officer at Transformidy
Transcription
Craig Patterson
Welcome to the Retail Insider Interview Series. I’m your host, Craig Patterson. And we’re joined here with Larry Leung. He’s the principal of Transformidy and as a customer experience strategist as well as an expert in all kinds of different areas. We’re going to be talking a bit about airport retail today. Welcome, Larry.
Larry Leung
Thank you for having me, Craig.
Craig Patterson
Let’s talk a little bit about airport retail here. We could do a bit of a focus on luxury retail. What are you seeing here in terms of retail and airports right now, before and after gates?
Larry Leung
Well, it’s been very interesting. So GTA just reported their 2022 financial numbers. And so I have them in front of me, they made $1.4 billion in revenue. And, interestingly, only $150 million or so came from concessions. And so that’s not a really big number, they get a lot more from landing fees, for example, or maybe parking fees, and even the airport improvement piece that you and I are paying per every ticket, but it hasn’t been as robust as it used to be for the airport due to the pandemic and less people traveling, but there has been some improvements. So now we’re seeing about $23 to $28 on average per passenger coming through and there were 35 – 36 million passengers going through the Pearson Airport last year. So those are pretty good numbers, can they get better? Definitely because a Pearson has seen almost 50 million passengers back before the pandemic. So we’re still a little ways to go when it comes to recovery.
Craig Patterson
Are we seeing other airports, perhaps with higher numbers are seeing more retail spending and a percentage of retail being the overall mix of revenue for the airports?
Larry Leung
So North America has never been as robust when it comes to having a bigger retail mix as a component of financial. So if you think about non-aeronautical revenue, which is the total part of revenue, that airport would receive on flights, they have always been at best 20-30% of all total revenue for an airport. Compare that to Asian airports, which is up to 50 plus percent, say Dubai airport 52%. Shanghai is 40% where their revenues mostly is not about flying activities. And you have seen some of the best airports in a world like Singapore Changi Airport just won Skytrax. Number one again, while they spent a lot of their capital in providing a robust customer experience of passenger experience through a ring forest to 24 hour shopping and having eateries that makes sense for a lot of people.
Craig Patterson
It’s a lot of the retail that we’re seeing at airports luxury retail? I’ve seen that in quite a few airports around the world. Obviously, there’s not just luxury retail, there’s all kinds of others, but what are you seeing in terms of the retail mix? What’s driving all that revenue for these really productive airports for the retail part?
Larry Leung
That’s a really good question. If we do a tour of leading airports, what we’re going to see is that the luxury retailers are mostly based in the international terminals or section of any terminal rather than domestic or US. And the question would be, should there be more luxury retailers? Or should Canadian retailers selling luxury brands, while think about maybe having a little boutique within the terminal because let’s face it, we have amazing Canadian shoppers, and they are buying luxury so they could be going to Montreal from Toronto for an opening or maybe a show but they may still want to buy luxury right? So what are we catering to those people travelling in Canada? I’d say maybe not enough.
Craig Patterson
Who’s behind the retail mix? Like it’s it’s airport travel? You know, there’s a Bugari store, I think still probably in terminal three in Toronto, or Hermes has a store in Vancouver. Who operates those? Is it the retailers themselves? Or is it a third party?
Larry Leung
depending on which country you’re in, and depending on who is managing the airport, how the retail mix may be a little bit different. So say Pearson for example, a lot of the space will be managed by a third party vendor that will be report up to Pearson’s senior management and usually contracts will be between three to five years and usually would be a little rent specific plus may be a percentage of sales. So depending on the contract that a retailer would have, they would have an alcove, maybe at the airport, and it would be very interesting that you know, such as Starbucks, for example, a lot of people expect to see Starbucks. How come I can’t mobile order, it’s the same thing. So it’s a third party bringing in Starbucks, having them operate as a franchisee. So you and I wouldn’t know that. In fact, they’re not part of the Starbucks system. That’s, that’s why we cannot use our app for the longest time. And it’s the same thing with retail. So if you look at all the retail Directory Online, some of them may not even list out their airport terminal presence at all. So if you look into Toronto Pearson, for example, not all the major retail brands that are in Toronto, at the Toronto Airport are listed.
Craig Patterson
These are not duty free retailers like or is there any sort of a discount that a shopper would be getting versus going to a store on Bloor Street or Alberni Street, let’s say in Toronto or Vancouver?
Larry Leung
If you’re not part of the duty free offering, then I think you have the retailer would have a little more option available for sales based on their own corporate directives. And within duty free, there will be more of an overall look into how to manage the customer mix and what should be discounted. But I seldom see a lot of discounts on retail brands, maybe we see more of that with alcohol as a bundle is broader than retail brands working as a bundle.
Craig Patterson
Now duty free retail, it doesn’t seem to be quite as big here in Canada, we’ve obviously got duty free retailers, but you go to places like say, Australia where they have, obviously, duty free retailers in the airport and even downtown. But let’s talk about that a little bit. Are you seeing any missed opportunities here for duty duty free retail in Canada? Generally?
Larry Leung
A lot of people ask me this question, “How come we don’t have 30 Free on arrivals or maybe at the city?”. So we have seen it. In many Asian countries. You mentioned Australia where there is a downtown shop where people can buy. So this is part of the Canadian government directive for the time being that they don’t have a directive to allow for duty free on Arrivals or at any city centers. Part of it, it’s managing the clientele. Most of the alcohol selling its provincial and not federal. And so they may have a word to say if you spent suddenly sell duty free alcohol at a lower price than, say, your local liquor store. So that could be a problem in itself. And then other brands are just not engaged enough to ask well, why not have duty free? But certainly there are many airports operators have been asking, should we at least think about it? And maybe there are opportunities wasted, especially on the arrival side where if you think about the Canadian airport designs, arrivals are typically not the place you want to be in. And they they’re usually boring, and you just want to get out. But yet, airport arrivals is the first connection and touch point for many international travelers coming into the country. And so there are actually opportunities to showcase what the country and the city is about through duty free and other shopping opportunities.
Craig Patterson
Do you think that we might see a change in duty free retail in Canada in terms of say having a large Duty Free Store in? Well, I mean that an airport, which I guess we sort of do but in a downtown core, like it was the case of Vancouver until maybe about a decade ago.
Larry Leung
I hope so because if you think about duty free for many decades ago, many airports designed the layout of the terminal so that they can Duty Free right after security and immigration. As security and immigration process has become a lot more difficult for some people to navigate. And a lot of people have had a lot more anxiety going through this process than the urge of wanting to buy something right after security or immigration would be reduced. And I think with that particular mindset in place, a lot of people may just skip duty free and just go to the gate or maybe go grab a coffee. So many airports should be looking at all the transit traffic, looking at how people are looking at merchandise, what type of merchandise are people looking for when they’re looking at Duty Free? And then maybe re-think about how they should we design the delivery as part of the overall passenger experience. Because if you look at the numbers, almost two thirds of the people going through Pearson are transferred passengers. If you are transferred passengers going to say international they would have already passed to duty free when they get to so so maybe they wouldn’t even hit Duty Free coming into the terminal and so we have to rethink well how do we modify motivate those passengers into spending more time looking at what’s offered rather than sitting at the gate? Which is not what the airport wants anyways.
Craig Patterson
And what about it I know for myself I’ve started only doing carry on luggage. Are there options out there for people that still want to shop but may not necessarily bring it in on their very limited luggage which may be packed to the packed to the gills like I do?
Larry Leung
In Canada, no. Canada has not really evolving innovator into thinking about shopping experiences beyond ‘buy and carry’, which is what we have been doing for many decades. But if you look at London Heathrow, for example, they have a world class shopping program whereby you can book in advance to get a shopper to help you get to security and then you can buy many products. Some of them you can carry on board with you some you can get them to hold it so that when you come home, you can pick it up, some can even deliver it to your home address or to your destination in so having extra availability for delivery or pickup allows a lot of shoppers to actually spend time and think maybe I need to go to Burberry and buy something and look for something rather than go into a boutique because I didn’t have time to. And then I can shop the way I want to and don’t have to carry everything with me.
Craig Patterson
Now let’s talk a little bit about the arrival part of the retail experience. But it’d be quite challenging, I guess, as a first question to reconfigure things spatially to accommodate some retail which would facilitate this vision?
Larry Leung
It would be because if you think about but but the airport can think about retail in many ways. You have ‘direct retailing’, which will be at the terminal. They can also have a relationship whereby if you’re passing through the terminal, that you can actually get a coupon for use in the city. So we have seen this in Singapore. So if you’re flying Singapore Airlines previously, you can use your boarding pass, and then you can go to many shops in the city, and then be able to get discounts for products and services. So Toronto Pearson can do a similar program to cater and build those relationships with retail brands too.
Craig Patterson
How about shopping on planes? This is something that I think we saw years ago, just perhaps with alcohol and maybe cigarettes, but what about a full catalog experience or something, I guess that would be a little bit more digital?
Larry Leung
We have seen we have seen over the years that there is reduction of Duty Free onboard, because they’re number one products are heavy. And if people are not buying them, then it’s contributing to, you know, potentially more gas meaning more expensive cost of running the flight. I think for airlines, there is always going to be a place for duty free. I think it’s more important to find products that are unique to the airline, to the destination, to the country that people want to buy. So if you have a limited edition teddy bear, from say, HBC, for example, catered for any Canadian airline, maybe those could be a good seller, versus just something you can also get at your destination or at home. And an alcohol and cigarettes are two things that many airlines used to rely on. I don’t know if those would be the motivator for many travelers today. Because number one, they’re heavy. Number two, if you have a connecting flight, chances are the outcome needs to be we packed into your suitcase or that it may not get to security. And so with that in mind, alcohol sales is not amazing when when you have to transfer flights.
Craig Patterson
Are we seeing some airports around the world using retail as an actual attraction and draw and I don’t mean draw specifically just to fly but but something which is going to bring people in and a luxury wing within within almost like a Yorkdale type of situation. Within an airport Are you seeing retailing itself becoming an attraction beyond just what we have in an airport like Singapore with its cool ‘other stuff’ that it has?
Larry Leung
So many new airports coming in. The one thing they can think about is people are not going to use a ‘check-in counter’, to do all the check ins and so there will be space available outside of security to actually engage the customer. And we have seen many cities, reclaiming that space and building restaurants and building smaller retail spaces for people to hang out before they get into the secured area. We have seen Edmonton do a very interesting job thinking about bringing customers off site, having shopping available off site and then getting them to go to the airport and it will be interesting to see how that is being evolved as a concept. Would they build a partnership for transportation, maybe even have more check in areas directly at the shopping center. That way, then people don’t have to worry about what’s going to happen to my luggage, what’s going to happen to the time? I need to go to the airport? That type of feeling. If that is solved, then they would have more comfort in shopping, you know at the outlet mall. And so I’m definitely looking into Edmonton as an example of what’s next and what else can be can happen outside of Edmonton.
Craig Patterson
What sort of improvements to see that could be done to retail at airports in Canada or be at luxury or otherwise?
Larry Leung
I think the number one thing really is to understand the customers. Where are they going? The more we know where they’re going, the more we will be able to cater specific solutions for them, the retail mix. A lot of the brands that I’ve talked to they, they think about every passenger as the same quality passenger. But we know that passengers are flying economy, Premium Economy and Business and first class, what are their needs exactly? From a retail shopping experience, maybe some of them do want more catered shopping experiences that I can be pre-booked, and that it turns into, instead of a one hour timeframe, maybe I can block time for a three hour experience at the airport so that you’re not just shopping, maybe you can get food, as you shop, get some champagne, that would be something that I think a lot the luxury shoppers may want or premium customers may want rather than to stay inside a lounge. Now, if you’re thinking about economy passengers, while they may be eating at a fast food restaurant, or maybe they’re going to Disney because they’re a family. Then you have to ask yourself, if you’re taking your family to Disney, what are things that we can help them to make sure that their trip is as comfortable and as fun as possible. And finally, Premium Economy passengers. That’s the one segment that has been, in other cases, not thought about. They are the ones who are paying to two and a half times more than a normal economy passenger maybe not a business class price point. So they don’t have access to lounge, but then they are traveling a little better. So what will be some of the elevated quality experiences available for them? And I think that’s sometimes not mapped out. And for a luxury retailer, well, you don’t have just one type of customer, you have multiple types of customers. Then you have to ask yourself, how are you courting them? How are you helping them number one, that they that you exist at the airport? And number two, what are some of the products available at different price range so that they will be managing that expectation and have that amazing shopping experience?
Craig Patterson
Interesting, interesting. One thing I find is we’re going to airports more earlier than ever, I think basically, and I always feel a little bit stressed. I mean, you’re going through security and whatnot, I don’t want to miss my flight, I just have a general feeling of anxiety at the airport. Is there anything you could suggest that would get people maybe to relax more besides supplying people with alcohol?
Larry Leung
Alcohol, it definitely worked for a lot of people, I think part of it is to educate the the passenger what’s happening, and what’s happening at the airport much earlier. So typically, people buy their tickets anywhere from three to six months in advance of their travel. Especially if they are flying for leisure over business. And so that means you have three to six months time to tell people what’s happening, whether or not there may be some new environmental or cleanliness procedure that they have to think about in a while about lineups that they have to think about. That’s something that would reduce anxiety because I think a lot of people don’t like waiting in lines. And if you tell them in advance that your flight is at a very peak time. And that by going earlier, or maybe even pay to to book a appointment for security, which is available in other airports, then maybe that will reduce your anxiety and more importantly after you go through security and maybe immigration – what else is at the terminal so that your trip will be as amazing as possible in though a lot of people may not know that their manicure and pedicure services available at Pearson. While they may not know because usually people who book manicure and pedicure appointments, you just go in hope that there will be spaces available for you. So maybe in the future, vendors should think about while maybe allowing people to book and give them some grace so that in case something happens, then they are not penalized.
Craig Patterson
I think that’s an issue generally not knowing what’s at the airport. I know for myself, I had to ask that question as Bulgari. Does it still have a store at Pearson Airport in Toronto? Because we don’t see a lot of directories or advertising. But it makes sense for airports to really, I guess, educate people through some sort of even just marketing and advertising of what’s there like we have a Ferragamo store at the Toronto Airport. We’ve got a Gucci shop in Vancouver at the airport. You know, because they’re not things you even see necessarily in a directory at least not publicly that’s that’s prominent and available.
Larry Leung
Number one that the digital directory needs to be more intelligent. So if you go to any of the Canadian airports, digital directory and type luxury while may it may not show you all the stores available that sells you luxury goods, that’s number one and number two, really having the experience mapped out earlier. So if you’re a luxury shopper, you may need a few things well how can the airport help you plan the trip so that you know those doors exists. And then number two, the goods are available that you want to buy exist. And and hopefully there will be something more limited edition specifically catered to that city or the airport, as we have seen in a Starbucks all over the world that you may have a mug. With that one city people love to collect those. So why not have that also, in any number of shops in Toronto, or in any Canadian airport.
Craig Patterson
That makes sense. And even just the wayfinding situation, I know that I don’t know why. And I guess the same thing maybe with the path and Toronto and Union Station and a few others, but I almost get lost the wayfinding situation, even if they attempt signage doesn’t seem to be their activity suggestions for improving this fiasco that people like me experience?
Larry Leung
Well, certainly airports do not want you to get lost. So they’re trying their best with their Wayfinding, what we have seen is that technology is not the solution. Most people already have a backpack or maybe a carry on. Plus, if they use their phone for Wayfinding, it actually does not work. What I love is a luxury wing, for example, if there is a specific wing, just for luxury retailers, and that there are good signage for it. And I think it will be it will make it easier to locate various stores. And more importantly, I think airlines can partner with those brands directly. And they know that you’re going to say Vancouver Airport, and so they know where your case is and what retailers are available near that gate area or near in that terminal. Why not tell you in advance, by telling you in advance, maybe you can make an appointment in the future or maybe even hold goods and products so that you can just pick it up. You don’t have to wait in line just go in by and pick it up, make life easier for people. It’s the it’s going to be something that we should see. And are some of the things I’m working with brands on because I feel like just like you said, the traveler experience is not as seamless as the advertising is telling you and they can do better.
Craig Patterson
And speaking of doing better, do you have any good examples of some airports that can be globally that have amazing retail that you’ve seen?
Larry Leung
Well, we talked about Singapore Changi Airport, we talked about London Heathrow Airport, Paris, and Amsterdam both have really good international airports that really showcased a their character, their identity with the retail experience. And when they have no specific stores that talks about who they are, then you really want to go, they do a really good job showcasing the airport using content creators. And the content creators are not just working for their channels, but working beyond the channels to showcase what’s possible. And I think that’s one area Canadian airports could use a little more help using content creators to go outside of the airport social media, into telling people in Canada and outside of Canada, what’s possible because like you said, maybe you ask yourself, are certain brands still available? Are they even in the brands directory? Online? Maybe not, right? So I think more can be done to tell people what’s going on.
Craig Patterson
Are we falling behind compared to other countries are other places around the world in terms of our airport retail?
Larry Leung
I think maybe it’s a holistic strategy that the Canadian government all the way down to tourism boards should take on with the help of airlines and airports in really building out a shopping retail strategy. I don’t think you can really solve the question “Are we falling behind?” putting the responsibility one stakeholder I think all the stakeholders can work together to come up with well, why these shoppers? Can we can we really showcase Toronto and any other Toronto Canadian cities that you’re not just here to sightsee, but here to shop. And how and why? And why is the airport the place to shop? I think those are the questions that we need to work together to address together and then build a strategy behind that.
Craig Patterson
You were recently quoted in an article in Retail Insider around bringing more local retailers I think into airports Tell me a little bit more about what you were thinking there.
Larry Leung
Bringing local retailers not easy. I’m gonna start that because you know, it takes a long time to curate. It takes a long time to bring in some of the stores and finally rent is really high. But many airports are suffering from the same, “Same old, same old”. They look the same, they feel the same. They have the same retailers and so for a an airport to differentiate itself and really showcase who they are. They have to think local and maybe worked with the local brands to develop them. So instead of just getting any local brands who’s willing to pay rent, maybe have an Innovation Lab and develop local What how a brand can do better at the airport and beyond. Because it’s not just a retail experience, it’s a Canadian experience going to have a store in a Canadian airport, right. So if I think beyond just retail, and think it’s a Canadiana exercise that more can be done to educate you awareness, maybe even systems. Because if you imagine that if smaller local stores don’t use may not have the purchasing power may not have the same it know how into building a better experience, maybe that’s something the airport can help them into doing something more for them to make them a success story and who doesn’t like a success story, especially local success story. And that was something I would want to, you know, get into and buy if I have the opportunity to see local vendors in the airport.
Craig Patterson
Are you aware of any initiatives coming down the pipeline that might say improve retail at airports in Canada?
Larry Leung
Well, I have seen, you know, we were we just talked about local, I’ve seen more of that in Vancouver Airport in, you know, parts of Calgary, we have seen some of that, right. So I encourage more, the Canadian airport authorities to really look locally, maybe even work with some of the local universities to come up with solutions. Because if money is an issue, well, then let’s figure out something maybe work with the banks on that. It’s an idea issue that we would like to work with universities and coming up ideas on how to build a maybe a wing that just like we talked about electric wing, why not build a wing, specifically with local artists, and local vendors selling things? That could be a very interesting idea, because it would be very different across Canada. And more importantly, I want the different airports to work with each other. So if I’m going between Vancouver and Toronto, there are distinctiveness uniqueness between the airports and the city themselves. Well, why not have them cross promote each other? Why aren’t all the Canadian airports cross promoting between each other so that it doesn’t matter where I go, I’m gonna always feel a little bit of Canada, at the airports. And I think that may be important. And it could be just as simple as seeing more Canadian flags, because I think in a lot of the airports, we don’t always see the Canadian flag. And that could be as simple as just showing up. That’s a Canadian flag. So we know that story is local.
Craig Patterson
If airports were able to significantly increase their overall revenue from retail offerings, do you think there could be a bit of a reduction saying – this is for the average person – for a reduction in the ticket price of some flights? Do you think there could be any savings passed on to consumers ultimately?
Larry Leung
Well, many people don’t realize that many Canadian airports have to pay rent to the government. And they also pay tax on top of that, right. So it’s, it’s a lot of work for them. And that’s why some of them have airport improvement fees. And if they are able to have a better retail mix, that really go after different clientele and showcase that what’s possible, and why you should shop at the airport, potentially, with an increased sale, maybe they can reduce some of the airport improvement fees, because some of them get to the $38 I believe Winnipeg is charging $38 per passenger. And so you may have a flair airlines coming at $9 per flight. Well, that doesn’t matter because the airport improvement feeds are already four times as high as the airfare and so Canadian Canadians wouldn’t necessarily see lower ticket prices. If we don’t see some of those fees go down.
Craig Patterson
Now, Larry, is there a way to increase dwell time to get consumers to spend more at the airport?
Larry Leung
I think the goal for airports is to increase dwell time. So we want you to get to the airport earlier because there’s so much to do at the airport, whether or not it’s an experienced base item or a retail shopping solution. Airports want you to spend more money, the goal is to find ways to to help you get there to inspire you. So part of it will be education, to the public, part of it would be to showcase what’s possible and redesign things like duty free so that people are not going through duty free after they get to go to security, for example, or immigration, when they’re the most interested in and have the highest stress. And then you know, think about shopping maybe at the gate rather than having rather than having all the retail at one location, maybe duty free and what can I buy and then pick up at the gate. Those could be some things that people may want to do because Pearson for example, already has an online solution. They have an E commerce platform so why can I just buy from there and then tell you went my thickness and then you just, you know, ship it to me kind of like duty free.
Craig Patterson
I remember we had an article in retail insider a while ago that Pearson Airport had launched this ecommerce platform As far as you’re aware, Larry hasn’t been a success?
Larry Leung
Why should people buy online appears and rather than Amazon, and you have to show customer what’s happening, you have to show customers beyond your own social media, on content platforms, they think really talked about it with a blog to or narked city or view. After you posted, we reached out because we, I wrote a piece and then I reach out to them specifically call that out and say, we would love to do a thing with you on your ecommerce, but they declined. So then that question is, well, why why? Why is there Why should people shop online, and then get them shipped home? I don’t know, I don’t know if I see that association. Not many airports do the same thing with an E commerce platform like that. And if they do, it’s more for the E commerce component. It’s more for tickets to sell for like experiences like Singapore Changi Airport, you buy tickets for many things. And so because they’re so big, it’s so big. I am going there in November, and my flight lands at 11:30pm. And my next flight is not to 9am. And so we are going to be at the airport, living at the airport overnight, and we’ll be having fun because there will be retail, there will be food, there’s a movie theater, there are lounges, there are a lot of different things. And we’re going to take pictures and videos for us to tell you, if Toronto decides to be a 24 hour airport, or any of the Canadian airports went up 44 hours, then what do they need to do? You know, something we didn’t talk about, but I feel like we should talk about in the future employees. And there are 1000s and 1000s of employees working for airports, right. And most of the time by 9:30pm there’s nothing for them, other than Tim Hortons. Well, that’s a problem for them. Right? Then they cannot even spend money. And so that adds to your sale. And then and then maybe further I like the Edmonton idea. I just think their execution is not very good. But I like it. Because I’m in say South Korea, you know, a place we can go in the future. They actually built airport city, or they airport cities where they have good transportation to bring you to different places. So people go in had plastic surgery at the airport city and then they go back to the airport.
Craig Patterson
This has been a fascinating conversation. Thank you so much, Larry, for joining us today, talking about airport retail in Canada and globally.
Larry Leung
Thank you so much for having me.
Craig Patterson
This has been Larry Leung. He’s the principal at Transformidy. He’s a customer experience strategist there as well as an expert in all kinds of things around consumer behavior and airports and all kinds of other things. And I’m Craig Patterson, I’m the founder, CEO and publisher of Retail Insider Media. I’m also the host here of the Retail Insider video interview series. Thank you so much everyone for joining us whether or not you’re doing this by video or on your local podcast channel. Thank you so much. Take care and bye for now.
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